Moving Beyond ROI: How CMOs Can Navigate Complexity in Marketing

Video Interview (36 Minutes) In this episode of Tomorrow’s Best Practices Today, host Clark Newby sits down with Kathleen Schaub, author of Marketing in the Great, Big, Messy, Real World, to unpack why deterministic thinking fails and what modern CMOs must do differently. Together, Clark and Kathleen explore why the obsession with ROI as a vending machine input-output model is misguided, how marketing metrics should spark dialogue—not dictate it—and why agility at the “edges” of the business is where real progress happens.

Crazy, STUPID, Marketing: Marketing in Times of Uncertainty

Video Interview (1 hour) Kathleen chats with host, Tracy Borreson about all things "navigating uncertainty", and whether you're a CEO with questions about why your marketing doesn't seem to be doing anything noticeable on your balance sheet, or a solopreneur trying to "figure marketing out", or a junior marketer who sees the potential in having the skills to navigate unpredictable waters, you'll definitely find some insight here.

Marketing in the Great, Big, Messy, Real World: Kathleen Schaub

Audio Interview (33 minutes) Host Dan Albaum talks with Kathleen about how chasing more data, tools and a tighter strategy doesn't automatically calm the chaos. Don't fall into the trap of viewing marketing as a "vending machine," and embrace AI with a "navigator" mindset. Focus on the good things versus dwelling only on the bad, and open yourself up as a leader that amazing possibilities await you might not even see today. Creating a work culture focused on continuous learning, composure, entrepreneurialism, empathy and trust creates your greatest impact.

Marketing in the Messy World with Kathleen Schaub

Video Interview (25 minutes) Kathleen sits down with host Mukund Mohan to dive into what it takes to future-proof a marketing org in the AI era. From rethinking the role of the CMO to implementing AI for operations, Kathleen shares a powerful perspective on the future of intelligent marketing leadership. Topics we cover include AI adoption in B2B marketing, the marketing ops evolution over 30+ years, the CMO transformation in the AI age, and how to build adaptive, insight-led teams. July 2025

The Hardest Question Facing CMOs Right Now

Book Review Can you let go of deterministic thinking and lead through uncertainty? Kathleen Schaub’s answer is yes — and here’s how. Myles Suer discusses the themes in Marketing in the (Great, Big, Messy) Real World for CMSwire.com from the perspective of a CIO.  July 2025

Marketing Is Not a Vending Machine

Video Interview (32 minutes) Kathleen talks with Jon Russo and Megan Heuer about marketing’s VUCA (volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous) nature and why adopting a new mindset is so crucial to success in today’s world. June 2025

Wise Marketer CMO Interview Series: Kathleen Schaub, Author, CMO

Video Interview (23 minutes) Kathleen sits down with host Bill Hanifin of the Wise Marketer about how traditional approaches that attempt to treat marketing as a vending machine set CMOs up for frustration in today’s dynamic business environment. Bill interviews Kathleen about her inspiration for the new book and to better understand the topline thoughts about the radically needed shift in thinking that not only brings clarity to the whole organization but helps CMOs thrive in the chaos. June 2025

Why the Quest for Predictable Marketing ROI is Doomed – And What to Do About It

Video Conference Keynote - Despite advances in technology, pinning down return-on-investment (ROI) for the marketing budget remains frustratingly remote. Executives would be happier if spending marketing dollars reliably delivered a pipeline lift, but marketing’s nature works more like weather and stock markets than machines. While marketers understand the importance of financial valuation, work arounds such as attribution impart insights but fail to truly predict financial results. Martech Conference 2022 Keynote

Marketing and CX in a VUCA World

Podcast with Transcript - Consumers have high expectations, and brands go to great lengths to meet – and surpass – these expectations. But that task becomes more and more challenging as we continue to market in a VUCA environment – one that’s volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Kathleen Schaub, writer, advisor and CMSwire Contributor, has some advice for leaders looking to navigate these rough waters and deliver exceptional CX. She caught up with CX Decoded's Dom Nicastro and Michelle Hawley to discuss navigating customer experience and marketing through constant change.